God Jesus and trinity.

God Jesus and trinity

In this essay we will discuss what the book "New Mormon challenge" maintains about our God.

God is the maker of heaven and earth page 164

"In the Old Testament one finds that a main concern of the biblical writer was how to live in light of the fact that Yahweh is a true creator"

at this point we agree totally we know that Jesus was the God of the old Testament "The Great Jehovah" we know that Jesus was the maker of this world according to John and Paul and we totally agree on thi point. What is different on our theology is the fact that we maintain that Jesus worked under the Father's direction and that they were two different people. So at this point the passages that Mr. Jim W. Adams mentions in his chapter will be considered correct Psalms 104:5-9 Proverbs 8:22-31 at the end of this scripture Mr. Adams remark:" It is clear from this passage that Yahweh existed prior to creation. Wisdom declares that Yahweh is the creator of the world and is accomplished in wisdom, not magic, matter or law. Thus, it seems fair to say that the author ASSUMES creation ex nihilo."

Unfortunately Mr. Adams doesn't consider that in this case WISDOM could even mean that the creation was an organized action which denotes the greatest wisdom in organize the whole thing perfectly.

But anyway my point here is not to talk about creation ex nihilo but instead about the relationship between Jesus or Jehovah and His Father. What is important to me here is this statement " It is clear from this passage that Yahweh existed prior to creation. "

It seems to me a pretty useless declaration because being Yahweh the creator is clear that he should be prior of creation otherwise there should be no creation at all. But why this statement is so important to me? Simple because the Protestants maintain that Godhead is composed by three people, God the Father, Jesus, the son, and the Holy Ghost but they are the same person, all of them are uncreated and coheternal. If this is wrong then most of their beliefs are totally wrong, so let's go to scrutinize this topic by the scriptures.

let's start from the scriptures that Mr. Adams provide for us.

"Over and over again the Old Testament boldly affirms that God is the Creator of the universe. It declares that Yahweh is "Maker of heaven and earth, often doing so in the midst of jubilant expression of praise and worship. Psalms 115:15  121:2   124:8 146:6 Jer 32:17  page 169

God has no theogony or Pantheon page 170

"Nowhere does the Old Testament present a myth of the origin of God or the begetting of other gods. (but the New testament will present it!). Unlike the gods of the nations, the God of the Old Testament has no nativity (sic), no parents (sic) he has no genealogy and he doesn't not die. "

I am happy to hear that because if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament he fulfills the whole questions. He was born from a Father and a mother, He is named the Son and His Father is "The Father" and He died. I know this is just his mortal life, but a "Son" should have a Father they are not the same thing to be named a son you should have a parent named father otherwise the titles son and father have no meaning. Anyway you will understand this point at the end when the scripture to clarify this will be given and after that the discussion will be over.

Mr. Adams declares"The Old Testament assumes from beginning to end that God has always existed ....this is stated in Psalm 90:2

In light of the Near Eastern cultural context in which ancient Israel arose, it is truly striking that within the entire Old Testament there is no absolutely trace of a theogony. God is never described as being another god's "son" nor is God ever called "father of other gods"

Let's consider this passages and then

Isaiah 48:12
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I [am] he; I [am] the first, I also [am] the last.

Isaiah 48:13
13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: [when] I call unto them, they stand up together.

Isaiah 48:14
14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these [things]? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm [shall be on] the Chaldeans.

Isaiah 48:15
15 I, [even] I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

who is speaking here is clearly Yahveh and what is declaring in the next verse it should be terrible for Mr. Adams

Isaiah 48:16
16 ¶ Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Yahweh is declaring CLEARLY that God is sent him!!!!

also regarding this statement of Mr. Adams :"God is never described as being another god's "son" nor is God ever called "father of other gods"

Hebrews 1:6
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:7
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:8
8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

and also

Hebrews 1:5
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Psalms 2:7
7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Clearly what Mr. Adams maintains are pure wrong ideas.

now to end the discussion we know by the Bible that Jesus is the Great Jehovah in fact

John 1:1
1 ¶ IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:4
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:5
5 ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

But unto the Son [he saith],

Hebrews 1:10
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

So clearly John and Paul identified Jesus as Yahweh and Jesus Himself declared the same thing in fact

John 10:33
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Who was the Jews' God, Yahweh!

well at this point let's go to the words of Jesus Himself to apprehend something special about Him.

Revelation 3:14
14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

the beginning of the creation of God!!!!!!!!!! Jesus was the first born in the Kingdom of God and the only one in the flesh.

The New Testament speak about the Father and the Son because this is their relationship! and Jesus explained

John 17:26
26 And I have declared unto them thy name,

If the Father's name was Yahweh they should knew Him already.

Well I am just curios how they could bend Revelation 3:14 because they never took it in consideration probably because it refutes all their effort, Mr. Adams wrote about 40 pages trying to make his points, philosophies, connections and so on but no one  sharp scripture to define his points. In the Olds Testament we have found at least one declaration that Jehovah was sent from another God and in the New Testament we have the declaration of Jesus Himself that he was the beginning of the creation of God, or the FIRSTBORN.